Sue Wadden (00:59): 
This is a fun topic. I know that so many people are going to be interested in what you do. In my world, everybody knows about interior design, but fashion is so the thing. So, talk about your role at NellyRodi and what are your connections to the fashion world? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (01:17): 
NellyRodi is again, as you mentioned, the Paris-based creative agency, and I am the managing director of North America, and I just acquired the UK as well. 

Sue Wadden (01:26): 
Congratulations. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (01:31): 
Yes, it's very exciting. And I've been with the agency about seven years and my connection with the agency was that, being a fashion designer for the last 35 years, I started in a time in the fashion industry where these types of agencies and services were basically everything for us. And so, when I started with the agency, it was really based on my fashion background, which made the connection with this particular role. 
(01:55): 
A year ago, I was promoted to managing director, so that's something new for me, but it's definitely was connected to my fashion industry experience. So, again, the agency was founded in 1985 by a woman named Nelly-Claire Rodi, and now her son runs the company. So, we are celebrating 40 years of being in business and I call it, of getting it right. 

Sue Wadden (02:17): 
I agree. It's wonderful. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (02:19): 
And so, yeah, it's super exciting. And so, we're, as you mentioned, one of the premier global agencies. We do offer color and trend editions twice a year, both a fall winter edition, a spring summer edition. And then, we do, which are really, really great right now are called sector studies. And those studies are really what's trending in consumer behavior and how that relates to specific different business sectors. So, whether it's a beauty study, whether it's a luxury study, whether it's a food and beverage even, hospitality. So, we're really branching into some of these great areas where there's definite consumer driving trends. And then, you mentioned consulting, so that's the other thing that we're really, really well known for is consulting. And that is a big part of our business as well. 
(03:03): 
And I would say, so for me, being a fashion designer, again, I mentioned that this was sort of our Bible at that time. We traveled. We drew by hand. We didn't have the internet. And I know that that always sounds really weird to say that out loud, but it's really the truth. And so, this type of service and this kind of intel was really important. Again, I mentioned that the agency was based on beauty or we work with the different sectors, beauty, fashion, home. So, fashion and home are very connected as well as beauty. We're all working in tandem together and we're all, we're being influenced by each other and it's constant. 

Sue Wadden (03:39): 
Do you find that that has changed over time? I've been doing this about 25 years. And when I first started again pre-internet, which is hysterical to say, it was really fashion just led because it was so seasonal. It was always constantly moving really quickly. And now, I do feel that the intersection is much more aligned. Would you find that true? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (03:59): 
100%. I think that there is this symbiotic connection. I know that maybe in a pre-COVID let's say time, maybe fashion was dictating what we're doing. But now, I think it's the interior design that's really dictating what's happening in fashion and/or it's happening all at the same time. 

Sue Wadden (04:17): 
Together, yes. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (04:18): 
Yeah. And this experimentation of color and let's say maybe different textures and patterns are really important as well. 

Sue Wadden (04:26): 
Let's talk about fashion week. I did not have the chance to go, nor have I been. It's on my list of things I would like to do. So, talk about Fashion Week 2025. What was the energy like for this season? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (04:37): 
It's always exciting to talk about runway. And fashion week, regardless of when it is, I think that there's just always such a great energy that comes from the unknown of what's going to come down the runway. And so, it was so much fun to jump in a little deeper than normal. And so, thank you for letting me do that. 
(04:56): 
But it seems like the definite direction for color in the collection is really about this holding onto the past. There's a lot of interesting ideas of, I see it as some of these let's say heritage colors being more present and colors that maybe aren't, let's say, as common let's say for interior design or let's say even on fashion, but on the runways. And what does that mean? So, for example, some of the designers that stood out for me and also for our creative agency was Saint Laurent, for example. 
(05:30): 
So, his collection was really embedded in the DNA of the brand, really this more '80s state of mind. Again bold, vibrant colors, bold shapes, really, really reminiscent of the way you think of Saint Laurent from the '80s. But again, in a very fresh, modern approach. And then, I saw, for example, Dior, which I thought was really amazing. Now, on a silhouette level, I felt like the colors were great, but I also felt like a silhouette was touching more on the classic, the new look, which I thought they did such an amazing job of this sculptured look with a modern twist with lots of lace, so lots of texture there. 
(06:09): 
And then, I would say that the collective colors that were really emerging through all of the different collections, whether it was Paris, London, New York, or Italy would be browns. Browns were really the predominant color, and I would say all forms of that. So, you would have your cognacs, your butter yellows, your rich burgundies, and then touches of opulent fuchsias and reds, as I mentioned with Saint Laurent. 
(06:34): 
Then, of course, the materials I saw, the predominant materials were fur, which is interesting, lots of leathers, lots of leather fringes. I'd say, it's like your basic rock star look. And then, Schiaparelli, for example, was very embedded in this kind of western wear with lots of trims and accessories. So there was a lot of excitement going on. 

Sue Wadden (06:53): 
Oh, there was a lot. And is that pretty typical of the collections? Like everyone has a point of view? Or do they all harmonize together magically? I'm amazed at how that happens sometimes. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (07:04): 
I am too. I think, I do get asked a lot like, "How do you predict color? How do you predict the future?" And I would say that... 

Sue Wadden (07:13): 
You and me both sister. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (07:16): 
But it's really a matter of, it's an organic kind of symbiosis, as I said. I used that word before, but I think there's this organic kind of connection to it. And I have been asked, I've been asked for more data-driven like, "Why is that color that color?" And I go, "I wish I could give you that. But I think that it's really about this organic emotional response." And I think that that's the same thing with collections. 
(07:39): 
A, the designer's job is to follow the DNA of the brand. I mean, but there are also their job is to also create something more modern, something more contemporary, something forward. It's a great job and it's also maybe a daunting job. You know what I mean? 

Sue Wadden (07:52): 
It is. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (07:53): 
To be able to have that connection or have that pressure. But as a creative person, I think that that's the best part of it, is having that foundation of what the brand is known for and giving it new life. 

Sue Wadden (08:05): 
I absolutely agree. And I think I've pared it down to pattern recognition. At its basis level I think designers that have been trained in color like us see immediate pattern shifts that you recognize when something's new or something to key in on. And I think that's how we do what we do. I don't know. It's, like you said, so subjective at times, and it can be daunting and overwhelming. 
(08:30): 
So, it's great to collaborate and to talk to friends in the industry that are seeing the same things and having good conversations. And obviously, podcasts, right? This is a great way to talk about this sort of shared space. So, I appreciate your insight very, very much. But now, that you're a managing director, your oversight includes interior. So, when you're watching these runway shows, do you see and think about the built space? Does that come in your mind as you're watching things unfold? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (08:59): 
100%. I mean, again, I mentioned we have the trend books. And so, in one of our trend books that absolute connection happened. In fact, I think it's more of an interior design space that's dictating what the fashion space would look like or the fashion collection. And so, we have a story in our fall, winter '26, '27, that's called Pomp. And Pomp is really about this deep-rooted foundation in landmark colors that I mentioned again. But those landmark colors are really touching on this expression and fascination of these bygone eras that we oftentimes romanticize. So, this romanticized idea of colors is really important. 
(09:35): 
So, they sometimes also come with a deep cultural significance. In this case, this story that we have, Pomp, is really again, more lavish materials, the velvets, the browns again, the cognacs, the metals and all the other things that come with that. So, that I felt like was an amazing, felt more interior design than it was, let's say fashion. Although, it is still very fashion driven too. It had a very '70s vibe to it. 

Sue Wadden (10:03): 
And that's this nostalgia thing can take you back to the '40s. I can take you back to even longer decades gone by because they celebrated that same revival in heritage colors as well. So, it's going to be fun to see how interiors adapt that. We've had lots of discussions about the intersection of minimalism and maximalism, which we'll talk about in a second. 
(10:24): 
And there's this tension between what is sublimely neutral and layered texture. And then, this other thing that's bubbling up, which is this heritage, look back at nostalgia, but reinterpreted, that I think that is really ornate, that's really jeweled and really emotional. So, it's a tension point that I think is exciting to talk about. 
(10:44): 
But would you see interiors influencing the runway in other ways? Do textures and materiality infect interiors and fashion symbiotically? Do you see that as fur and leather? I haven't seen a lot of leather in interiors, but it could be. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (11:04): 
Well, the leather portion of it, I mean, let's say these over-the-top fringes or fur, I mean, those 100% can be translated into interiors, whether it's obviously a leather couch. I mean, but maybe more of that connection there. I can 100% see all of these different materials translating themselves into interior design. 
(11:27): 
I did see there's a lot of texture in terms of just what I saw, whether it's a wash in the denim that could easily be translated into let's say a wall texture. It was with Louis Vuitton, the collection with Nicolas Ghesquière. He has this beautiful denim that's rust and rustic and just beat up in some ways. But that could be 100% a beautiful pillow. It could be also a great wall. Again, texture there, treatment exactly. 

Sue Wadden (12:00): 
We have been seeing pockets of, I mean forgive me for saying this for textured wall faux finishes, sanded and suede touches that we haven't seen in probably 20 years. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (12:11): 
Exactly. 

Sue Wadden (12:12): 
Those Venetian plaster looks, that old world is creeping its way back into interiors. And obviously, it starts at the high-end that beautiful luxurious interiors. But it's really interesting to watch. And we're going to pay attention to that as people are going to want products to recreate that look. So, I think that's pretty great. But did you see any minimalism in the collections, anything that was really restrained? Because we've talked a lot in our trend work about the idea of essentialism and utility as a key driver for the next couple seasons. Did you see that show up at all? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (12:48): 
I would say that with the Saint Laurent show, I think that there was minimalism there in its form because of just the boldness of the shapes and the colors. There wasn't as much, let's say, texture there like I saw in other collections. But it was really this very sophisticated, bold shapes. We've talked about that in our fall, winter '25, '26 edition. We talked about that as well. And so, that's what I would say I saw more of the simplistic side of it. 
(13:17): 
I think there was just a lot more texture, a lot more layering. And maybe it lends itself also because it's the time of year, the fall, winter season, you tend to get more burnout velvets. And I saw some of the predominant things were really about this amazing use of color. That's really what I saw along with the fabrics and the different layers of texture. So, there were these pops of color in there, or let's say in the burnout velvet, it was maybe a great marriage of different colors together against maybe jewel tones. But then, with some kind of accent pops of color. 

Sue Wadden (13:51): 
Ooh, that's- 

Jacqueline Rumohr (13:52): 
I'd say red was the more predominant color there in terms of accent. 

Sue Wadden (13:57): 
As an accent color. So you had mentioned browns being the color of the season, and we are tracking that as well. We had a brown in our color capsule of the year. We know Pantone had I think mocha mousse is their color of the year. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (14:10): 
Yeah. 

Sue Wadden (14:11): 
Do you see that continuing, this rich ripening of browns? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (14:16): 
Very much. In fact, our creative global director, Cecile Rosenstrauch, she said, "Brown is the new black." 

Sue Wadden (14:25): 
In my opinion, my humble opinion, it's so much more versatile. It lends itself, again, post-COVID coming out of the natural neutrals, all of those things, you can get a lot of bang out of your brown buck, if you will. So, I love it for interiors. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (14:40): 
I agree. And the brown is so much easier to work with. It's softer, it's a little bit more chic. It's a little more sophisticated. I think black is a little harsh sometimes, especially in interiors. And I think brown is a great way to introduce, or let's say even extend your quiet luxury into out of beige into brown. But it's a great transition there if you're afraid of color because if you're in a beige world. 

Sue Wadden (15:07): 
No. Black is black until it's gray, right? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (15:10): 
Yes. 

Sue Wadden (15:10): 
I mean there's not a lot of variation. Whereas, brown, you have a spectrum within from beige to deep nut brown. So, it allows a lot of versatility in what you can put into an interior. And I think homeowners are like, "What? Brown's back?" I'm like, "Yes, everybody, it is." But designers are really getting excited about it. And maybe it's not about a full brown interior painted wall, but maybe it's about the surfaces that you put in. 
(15:36): 
So, maybe it's deep rich cordovan sofas and rich tapestry rugs and elements that you pull into the layering that on our team, we've talked about layered maximalism, like neutral maximalism where you maybe have a monochromatic palette, but you build in that excitement with layered textures and pattern. And I think that's something that we're going to watch really develop in interiors as well. So, beyond brown, you've mentioned red. What were some other exciting colors that we should pay attention to? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (16:08): 
Well, again, because it was the time of year, the fall, winter season, but I saw a lot more cognacs that work off of brown, of course, yellow. Yellow in a butter sense, butter yellow, lots of from Chloe to even again to Dior, there was a lot of use of this beautiful yellow. We actually every season have a color of the season. And so, that's what our books come as the binder color. I don't know if you knew that. 

Sue Wadden (16:35): 
I do know that, yes. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (16:39): 
So, yellow was a very interesting color because for spring, summer 2026, we had actually been... Because we're at this two-year predictive space. So, I'm showing things two years ahead of, because I'm working with so many different industries. So, we had been in a brown state of mind because that makes sense. And then, when the yellow popped up, I was like, "Oh, this was so exciting." Because I was like, "Oh, my God, yellow." And it just made so much sense because it worked so well off of the previous palettes, let's say. And it just started to be, it got itself inserted into these different areas. And so, yellow works beautifully, obviously with brown. It also works really well with some of the burgundies and some of the different colors. 
(17:20): 
And what's also happening is, there are colors that are now stretching outside of that traditional time of year, and that one color would be pink. So, pink is no longer a color that just sits in spring, summer. It's really now an all-year-round color, which we've also talked about in our fall, winter, '26, '27 edition. We actually start in the book with what's called Colors on the Radar. And so, we're addressing different groups of colors in their ranges and families. 
(17:52): 
So, we're addressing, I think it's nine different ranges of colors between smoky grays, chlorophyll greens, pink of course, as I mentioned is now this year-round color. Burgundies, we saw a lot of those on this particular runway as well. Again, that lends itself to working beautifully with brown. And greens, lots of greens too. 

Sue Wadden (18:14): 
Lots of greens, lots of greens. I love it. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (18:14): 
Lots of greens. 

Sue Wadden (18:15): 
So, the butter. All right. So, I'm picking what I wanted to go back to. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (18:18): 
Back to butter, sorry. 

Sue Wadden (18:19): 
Back to butter. What's really exciting to me about yellow, because people have a very love-hate relationship with yellow, but the one that's emerging is this, like you said, soft, buttery yellow. And it looks fantastic in interiors. So, whether it's your kitchen cabinets or a piece of furniture or some small touch, it can really add a lot of life to a space. And you don't really have to paint your whole interior yellow. So, again, those little touches are going a long way. 
(18:48): 
You start to see them in shelter pubs on the front covers. They're featuring yellow in big, impactful ways. So, I'm excited about it as well. But I do love the trans-seasonal approach because amber, amber was a key material and finish that we saw when we were at the furniture show last year everywhere. So, amber glass, golden, that sort of golden glow on all sorts of finishes and surfaces was definitely telling that warm story. So, I don't see that slowing down anytime soon. There was a lot of talk of purple this year. Did you see any purples in the collections? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (19:25): 
I saw, I think more burgundies than I saw purples let's say. But yes, purples were part of it. It's in that family as well. So, maybe more of the berries. 

Sue Wadden (19:34): 
Yeah. So, going from a sweeter saccharin lilac into something new, which is equally exciting. Yes, yes, I think that's where we're going. There is just a richness. We have explored pastels. We've seen lighter tones, but there's definitely a heritage nostalgia. What did you call them, landmark colors? I love that expression. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (19:54): 
Landmark colors. Landmark colors. 

Sue Wadden (19:55): 
Jacqueline, I will quote you when I say that moving forward. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (19:58): 
Okay, good. 

Sue Wadden (19:58): 
I love it. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (20:00): 
That's a NellyRodi, that's a NellyRodi. So, in the fall winter book, we separate colors by landmark colors, which I mentioned surprise colors, which are these feisty, vibrant, energizing colors. And then altruistic, so those would be more soothing. So, we've identified colors falling into these different categories, which I think is really important. 

Sue Wadden (20:21): 
Oh, I like that. Well, I love your books and consume them. It's my go-to resource. So, anybody that wants to come into my office that works at Sherwin that's listening, I will show you your books. They're pretty amazing. But what would you advise listeners about getting outside of their comfort zone, whether it's in fashion or interiors, when it's related to color? Talk about the tension between a trend and really just exploration, taking something on that's unexpected. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (20:49): 
I just think color is the one place where, whether it's fashion or whether it's your home, is where you can really experiment and really have a good time. And I think that it could be a fear-based area maybe for some, where they don't see it. But I will say that, and I'm not going to go off on a tangent, but I think that social media has created an ability to see, let's say this experimentation without having to take the risk, somebody else is going to do it for you. 
(21:17): 
And so, typically, that's what I'm seeing now, even if it's like, I'm absolutely fascinated with these people that take old ugly derelict nightstands and chests of drawers, and they turn them into these amazing pieces of furniture. And it's oftentimes just, it's either just re-surfacing it, repainting it. So, color plays definitely into that, but you're seeing so much more of people taking the risk for you. 
(21:44): 
So, I think that color is one way. And here's the good news with color, if you don't like it, you repaint it. It's a small step into experimentation. And I'm a big fan of color. I love using colors. My whole house is all kinds of colors. 

Sue Wadden (22:02): 
I love that. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (22:03): 
And I love changing them. I have a funny story because I painted my house, it's been a while, but I painted my house and it was white with black shutters, and it had, I think gray something somewhere. Anyway, I hated it. And so, I just picked the colors, ran off to work. And my neighbor called me and said, "Your house looks amazing." I said, "Really? I have no idea." 
(22:29): 
I switched to these fabulous smoky greens, and I painted an orange door because my house is mid-century modern. So, she's like, "Your house looks amazing." And my idea was that I wanted it to disappear into the background because I have hills where I live, mountains. And so, I didn't want it to be this thing. So, I came home and I said, "Wow, it was a happy accident." It totally worked. I didn't do one patch test, nothing. I just went for it. 

Sue Wadden (22:54): 
You just knew. You just knew. Yes. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (22:56): 
I don't know if I knew, it just but that's how I approach color. And I think that color is one of those things that it's also visceral. You have to like certain colors, hopefully you pick colors that you like. I mean, that's kind of a thing too. You don't want to pick a color you hate and paint your house in it. 

Sue Wadden (23:14): 
Agree. And that'll lead into the next question, which is about regionalism. So, oftentimes, people gravitate towards... They like things that they see all the time, whether they're looking out the window or in their neighborhoods or in their communities. And so, given your experience and what you've learned over the years, do you find regionalism in fashion affect where color goes versus say the UK and Italy versus what's going on in New York? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (23:39): 
Well, I used to think it was regional. I really did. But now, I feel again, and I don't know if it's the social media aspect, but we're just living in a global world now in terms of design. Again, back to when I started in the industry and you as well, that we didn't have this ability to... We also live in this very standardized world. So, again, back to the social media aspect, when one thing happens, it's like everybody knows about it. 
(24:05): 
So, I think regionally I'm seeing architecture and I'm seeing colors really becoming more universal. And it would be that you might think of LA as a certain, let's say, aesthetic. But you'll see that in New York, or you'll see that in San Francisco, or you might see that in Dallas. And so, we're seeing more, I think more universalism in a sense. I don't know if that's a word, but I'm seeing this almost standardized color palettes. 

Sue Wadden (24:33): 
You could absolutely make the case for that, but you can also see when there's heartbeats of color. A color moment happens and you see that and then, all of a sudden, it starts popping up. And I love that for interiors. I think it's exciting and it's frustrating. Designers get frustrated by that because their clients will ask them for things that are outside of the norm for a typical designer. But I think it is just because of color has coming back into the fold after a really long hiatus. So, it's good. I think this is all good. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (25:06): 
And you know where I'm seeing, let's say, I think where it's happening the most and the best kind of version of how to use color and how to see things in a different way is in hospitality. I think that the hotels are phenomenal, the designers, we have a fabulous designer here in LA named Kelly Wearstler, and she does- 

Sue Wadden (25:27): 
Oh, she's amazing. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (25:28): 
I know. 

Sue Wadden (25:28): 
She's amazing. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (25:30): 
She is. And so, I love her global artisan approach to what she uses. I love the colors, I like the use of color, I love the use of all the textures. And that look, for example, will be, let's say probably in Italy, or it could be in LA, it could be anywhere. And I think that hospitality is this amazing space where we're seeing just much more use of all these great rich patterns and materials and textures. And I think it's that's... And cafes, restaurants, same thing. 

Sue Wadden (25:59): 
Would you say that that's your big takeaway? Was this richness prevailing? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (26:06): 
Yeah. 

Sue Wadden (26:07): 
Yes. That's what we should take into '26 and '27? I guess talk about that just a bit more, based on what you've been seeing tell us what we should be paying attention to. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (26:17): 
I think we should be paying attention to again, we talked about it, but these nostalgic or this relation with the past a little bit, but giving it this fresh life into the future. And I think that that's what we saw on the runway, the fall, winter '25 shows just recently. And again, this idea of using browns and any kind of colors that harmonize with that, I think that that's what I saw in terms of just the runway direction. 

Sue Wadden (26:46): 
Yes, love it. And again, one more thing I'm remembering that I wanted to ask about pink. So, this trans-seasonal approach to pink, is this a soft pink? Is this vibrant pink? What sort of pink are we classifying? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (26:59): 
We show it actually in ranges in a certain range, and it actually touches on a little bit of mauve in one aspect. It touches a little bit on coral in one, and then it's more of a, let's say traditional pink, let's say. But we are showing this range of pinks, and it's also non-gender in terms of how we're approaching it as well. So, it's no longer just for women. 

Sue Wadden (27:20): 
Yes. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (27:21): 
And so, pink is a really important color. 

Sue Wadden (27:23): 
Got it. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (27:23): 
And we show it in such a fabulous range. I almost feel like I need to get it for you. 

Sue Wadden (27:28): 
No, show it. We're on camera. You got it. Just pop it up, so people can see it because we're recording. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (27:34): 
This is the fabulous book. And like I mentioned, the color's on the radar, but I'm going to flip to the page on pink. 

Sue Wadden (27:43): 
Well, and while you're finding it, I stand up for coral in every way. I love coral so much. Oh, look how pretty. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (27:51): 
How yellowy is that? 

Sue Wadden (27:53): 
Amazing. Amazing, amazing. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (27:55): 
So, you can see it's almost here, I missed one. It's almost like this. So, it's a mauve. It's in there. 

Sue Wadden (28:00): 
Yes, yes. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (28:02): 
But it's a little bit almost on the taupe side. So, what a great way to inject a fabulous color into your quiet luxury space. 

Sue Wadden (28:09): 
Completely. Well, and we had talked about that. That was our color of the year a few seasons ago, was red and point, which was the sandy, almost clay bisque, warm, neutral. It was beautiful. But for maybe I was a little too forward in talking about it at that time because I got pushed back like, "Ah, this is too much. I couldn't put this in my interior." But it was an indication of what was coming. And now, look at these colors. This warmth is really, really prevailing. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (28:36): 
Can I ask you a question? 

Sue Wadden (28:38): 
Yes. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (28:41): 
You just touched on something that's really important when it comes to design. And I think that this is definitely a fashion versus it's all designers probably face this struggle. But you knew that this color would be important and you wanted to put it in there. And in fashion, it's sometimes the buyers that don't understand or the merchandisers that don't understand. And I don't want to be negative about it, but it's like when you're a designer, you have this natural feeling about things. And so, it's hard to explain why you think that it should be there. And so, how's that for you? When you know something should be there, how hard is it for you to make that statement? 

Sue Wadden (29:22): 
It can be a challenge. So, I try to have a rhythm. So, maybe for one season I'm really talking about a color that I know is going to be a strong color that everybody can get behind, and it just happens to be the right one. 2020 was navel, that was a... Navy blue was an extremely popular color. And then, we had COVID. And so, I was like, "Ah, how do we talk about anything in 2021?" That was terrifying, but it was about sanctuary. So, I knew to choose a really deep, deep dark color because we needed that support and it was a great color. 
(29:57): 
And then, the next year was all about green because it was 2022, and we were post-COVID. So, the rhythm that we were talking about colors has really worked for us. And then, I wanted to shake things up in '23, so it was about this sandy beige, which was startling for people. They were enjoying green so much. They're like, "Why are you telling me about to go do this?" 
(30:16): 
Again, you use the data, you use the research, you use your partners like NellyRodi, right? You are a strong partner for me. It is like, when I have an instinct, it's often validated by the work that you do. So, I feel good about the recommendations, and I'm never going to recommend something that's not going to look good on a wall. Truly, truly at my heart, I'm an interior designer by background. If a color's not going to look good up, I'm not going to talk about it. So, I feel like those are my three checkpoints in making a recommendation. 
(30:47): 
And then, you just hope that the way we shoot the photography, the way we put the campaign together, the way that we build all the other elements come together to tell this really compelling story. Because at the end of the day, it's also about the storytelling. We want these colors to resonate and be meaningful to people. They don't paint all the time. If they're going to make the commitment to put a navy blue on the wall, we really want them to feel good about that for a long time. 
(31:10): 
So, it's a challenge, but also really rewarding because at the end of the day, we're creating these interiors that make people excited and it's their homes. It's such a personal space, and color is such a personal choice. So, challenge. Challenge, yes. But we love the challenge. And it's like we're getting ready for 2026, '27. So, I'm excited. I'm excited to share it, and we'll be ready in a couple of months to talk about it again. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (31:36): 
Oh, great. I love it. 

Sue Wadden (31:38): 
So, how do people find out information? Obviously, I'm a subscriber to NellyRodi, but for the average folks that want to learn more, how can they find you or more information? 

Jacqueline Rumohr (31:50): 
I would say, the best place to see what we do would A, be on our website. So, it's nellyrodi.com. So, that be www.N-E-L-L-Y-R-O-D-I.com. It's in French and English, so you would just pick the little drop-down and find your language. 

Sue Wadden (32:06): 
So great. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (32:08): 
And then, and I would suggest signing up for the newsletter. 

Sue Wadden (32:11): 
Yeah, the newsletter is great. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (32:11): 
But then, I would also say... The newsletter is great, and then that also comes in French and English. And then, I think our Instagram feed would be amazing. So, @N-E-L-L-Y-R-O-D-I, that is populated every day, and they have... We do color of the month, so we do this amazing little reel that goes, and they show all these great images. 
(32:33): 
And, of course, we have our brand or our agency has its own DNA as well, and look. And you've authenticated it by saying that it's a good resource for you. And for me, when I used to be the user, when I started in the industry in fashion, this was always my favorite publication because it was always colors that I saw that you could use. It wasn't some ethereal, weird color, and it applied to everything. No, I'm just saying. 

Sue Wadden (33:04): 
Right. It's true. It's really true though. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (33:07): 
Yeah, I mean, and we do storytelling. So, part of our seasonal, how we describe the season is always through storytelling. We give you the colors. It's an amazing tool to actually use for so many different industries. And, of course, we do, like I mentioned, fashion, beauty, and home. So, we have that sort of focus there. 

Sue Wadden (33:29): 
And I super love your beauty as well. Even though I don't talk about beauty as much, I consume those reports like crazy. It's just, it's wonderful. So, it's a great resource. So, we're going to not take up any more of your time. You've been so generous. We really appreciate this. Thank you for joining me. We'll have to do this again next season. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (33:46): 
Yes. 

Sue Wadden (33:46): 
Talk about spring, I don't know. We'll do something great. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (33:48): 
Let's do it. 

Sue Wadden (33:50): 
Love it. Thank you, Jacqueline, so, so much. 

Jacqueline Rumohr (33:53): 
Thank you. Have a great day. 

Sue Wadden (33:59): 
Before we go, we'd like to take a moment to congratulate our May designer of the month, Liz Goldberg of CAROLYNLEONA. You can find her work and contact info online at carolynleona.com and show her some support by following @carolynleonadesign on Instagram. 
(34:19): 
Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed this conversation, please consider subscribing, leaving us a review and telling others about our show. Tune in next time as we continue to explore the wide world of color and design. See you next time on Colormixology.